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	<title>Comments on: The myth of Title II &#8216;reclassification&#8217;</title>
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	<description>Pro-Culture, Pro-Commerce</description>
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		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; FCC third way &#8211; Shattering the congressional tether</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-11307</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; FCC third way &#8211; Shattering the congressional tether</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-11307</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
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		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The incoherency of reclassification movement</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-7021</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The incoherency of reclassification movement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 19:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] to regulate broadband Internet service and prevent another Comcast-BitTorrent situation is a myth, yet the reclassification advocates continue to attack anyone who dares to question their faith in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to regulate broadband Internet service and prevent another Comcast-BitTorrent situation is a myth, yet the reclassification advocates continue to attack anyone who dares to question their faith in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5751</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5751</guid>
		<description>The old chestnut about Clinton&#039;s appointing Powell is a truly weak argument.  Minority-party members of the FCC are selected by their own party&#039;s Congressional leadership, usually ratified in pairs with the President&#039;s own-party appointee.  Clinton thus did not select Powell or Furtchgott-Roth; he went along with them.  That&#039;s just how the process really works.  I think you know that.

Hundt and Kennard maintained fairly strict unbundling requirements on the ILECs, which go beyond Title II in their potential effect, and also maintained Title II carriage and the Computer II/III rules, but of course only on physical transport, not ISPs. 

The key question, then, boils down to this:  Who plays post office in the era of electronic publication?  The USPS carries all newspapers on a nondiscriminatory basis.  It is the parcel common carrier of last resort.  IIRC Ben Franklin created it in order to promote the free press.  

If there is no compulsion for ISPs per se to carry any and all content (as we agree there shouldn&#039;t be), then what prevents the one or two ISPs that reach a given customer from censoring the electronic press?  Apple already does this on its iPhone app store.  I suggest that the mere threat of such regulation has held the Bells at bay so far, so if the threat were lifted by, say, regulatory certainty (not something we&#039;re used to...), then their behavior could change rather dramatically.  And of course they could try man-in-the-middle attacks on ecommerce, via the IMS concept.  AT&amp;T liked that idea too.

The simple answer is to concede common carriage at the bottom of the stack, at just and reasonable prices that return a fair profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The old chestnut about Clinton&#8217;s appointing Powell is a truly weak argument.  Minority-party members of the FCC are selected by their own party&#8217;s Congressional leadership, usually ratified in pairs with the President&#8217;s own-party appointee.  Clinton thus did not select Powell or Furtchgott-Roth; he went along with them.  That&#8217;s just how the process really works.  I think you know that.</p>
<p>Hundt and Kennard maintained fairly strict unbundling requirements on the ILECs, which go beyond Title II in their potential effect, and also maintained Title II carriage and the Computer II/III rules, but of course only on physical transport, not ISPs. </p>
<p>The key question, then, boils down to this:  Who plays post office in the era of electronic publication?  The USPS carries all newspapers on a nondiscriminatory basis.  It is the parcel common carrier of last resort.  IIRC Ben Franklin created it in order to promote the free press.  </p>
<p>If there is no compulsion for ISPs per se to carry any and all content (as we agree there shouldn&#8217;t be), then what prevents the one or two ISPs that reach a given customer from censoring the electronic press?  Apple already does this on its iPhone app store.  I suggest that the mere threat of such regulation has held the Bells at bay so far, so if the threat were lifted by, say, regulatory certainty (not something we&#8217;re used to&#8230;), then their behavior could change rather dramatically.  And of course they could try man-in-the-middle attacks on ecommerce, via the IMS concept.  AT&amp;T liked that idea too.</p>
<p>The simple answer is to concede common carriage at the bottom of the stack, at just and reasonable prices that return a fair profit.</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Open Internet Coalition &#8211; Not your father&#8217;s Title II</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5725</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Open Internet Coalition &#8211; Not your father&#8217;s Title II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5725</guid>
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		<title>By: George Ou</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5723</link>
		<dc:creator>George Ou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5723</guid>
		<description>But Powell was pointed by Clinton, and so was Kennard.  Both of them oppose Title II classification and Reed Hundt also came out in that interview along with Powell and opposed Title II classification.

It&#039;s also worth nothing that back in those days, you actually had Republicans like Sen. Stevens in favor of Title II classification while Senator Kerry opposed Title II.  So your over simplification that this is just some W/Rove/Cheney plot doesn&#039;t really fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Powell was pointed by Clinton, and so was Kennard.  Both of them oppose Title II classification and Reed Hundt also came out in that interview along with Powell and opposed Title II classification.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also worth nothing that back in those days, you actually had Republicans like Sen. Stevens in favor of Title II classification while Senator Kerry opposed Title II.  So your over simplification that this is just some W/Rove/Cheney plot doesn&#8217;t really fly.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5714</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5714</guid>
		<description>George, Rove and Cheney ruled for eight years, so they could have argued their patrons&#039; wishes a hundred times and it would all be as one.  And a duopoly is not open competition:  Both traditional American HHI analysis and the somewhat stricter EU standards recognize that.  For one thing, it&#039;s pretty well understood that wholesale markets don&#039;t really open up until there are four players.  So no, there is not real competition.  Pravda and Izvestia are not competition, and the possibility that Gazeta be seen as competition doesn&#039;t make it so.

Estoppel is not a problem if changed circumstances, or errors of fact or law in the original position, can be shown.  After all, Powell and Martin directly contradicted positions of previous Commissions.  What makes them the final canon?

I&#039;ve made it clear that I agree that regulation of ISPs per se is not a good idea, but that only withstands scrutiny when regulation of infrastructure allows open entry into the ISP market.  And no, Verizon Wireless is not competition for Verizon-ILEC.  Nor is CMRS of any kind a competitor.  You&#039;re just repeating Republican talking points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, Rove and Cheney ruled for eight years, so they could have argued their patrons&#8217; wishes a hundred times and it would all be as one.  And a duopoly is not open competition:  Both traditional American HHI analysis and the somewhat stricter EU standards recognize that.  For one thing, it&#8217;s pretty well understood that wholesale markets don&#8217;t really open up until there are four players.  So no, there is not real competition.  Pravda and Izvestia are not competition, and the possibility that Gazeta be seen as competition doesn&#8217;t make it so.</p>
<p>Estoppel is not a problem if changed circumstances, or errors of fact or law in the original position, can be shown.  After all, Powell and Martin directly contradicted positions of previous Commissions.  What makes them the final canon?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve made it clear that I agree that regulation of ISPs per se is not a good idea, but that only withstands scrutiny when regulation of infrastructure allows open entry into the ISP market.  And no, Verizon Wireless is not competition for Verizon-ILEC.  Nor is CMRS of any kind a competitor.  You&#8217;re just repeating Republican talking points.</p>
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		<title>By: George Ou</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5703</link>
		<dc:creator>George Ou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 06:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5703</guid>
		<description>Fred, there&#039;s one major flaw in your thinking and the past three FCC chairman before the current one all disagree with you.  Verizon is not a monopoly and that street in front of your house accommodates cable, Copper, and fiber not to mention the wireless network which is a valid substitute for a small but growing percentage of users.  The FCC has argued no fewer than four times in five years before the court that Title II should not apply.  If the FCC tries to reverse course, they&#039;re going to have a hell of a time proving their own previous assertions wrong without looking like they&#039;re trying to end-run the courts and without facing a judicial estoppel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred, there&#8217;s one major flaw in your thinking and the past three FCC chairman before the current one all disagree with you.  Verizon is not a monopoly and that street in front of your house accommodates cable, Copper, and fiber not to mention the wireless network which is a valid substitute for a small but growing percentage of users.  The FCC has argued no fewer than four times in five years before the court that Title II should not apply.  If the FCC tries to reverse course, they&#8217;re going to have a hell of a time proving their own previous assertions wrong without looking like they&#8217;re trying to end-run the courts and without facing a judicial estoppel.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5693</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 01:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5693</guid>
		<description>George, it&#039;s your blog, not mine, so I won&#039;t belabor the point.  My point is that Verizon built its network (as did the other ILECs) with the help of a de jure monopoly, under rate of return regulation.  In exchange, they were supposed to be a common carrier.  They should either be one, or spin off the outside plant to someone else who will open it up, either as unbundled facilities or common carriage.  There is only one street in front of the house and we can&#039;t tell competing newspapers that if they want to deliver papers, they should build their own streets.  And that&#039;s what you are essentially advocating for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, it&#8217;s your blog, not mine, so I won&#8217;t belabor the point.  My point is that Verizon built its network (as did the other ILECs) with the help of a de jure monopoly, under rate of return regulation.  In exchange, they were supposed to be a common carrier.  They should either be one, or spin off the outside plant to someone else who will open it up, either as unbundled facilities or common carriage.  There is only one street in front of the house and we can&#8217;t tell competing newspapers that if they want to deliver papers, they should build their own streets.  And that&#8217;s what you are essentially advocating for.</p>
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		<title>By: George Ou</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5685</link>
		<dc:creator>George Ou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5685</guid>
		<description>When a company like Verizon spends $17B capex in 2009 and employs well over 235K workers, I don&#039;t have a problem with them earning ~6% net profit margin.  All the other numbers of &quot;triple digit&quot; returns aren&#039;t really relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When a company like Verizon spends $17B capex in 2009 and employs well over 235K workers, I don&#8217;t have a problem with them earning ~6% net profit margin.  All the other numbers of &#8220;triple digit&#8221; returns aren&#8217;t really relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-title-ii-reclassification/comment-page-1/#comment-5682</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 21:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=4167#comment-5682</guid>
		<description>No, George, I&#039;m not talking about gross profit margin.  I&#039;m talking about rate of return, as calculated under the old USoA rules.  The FCC tracked this until recently.  Return on equity is really the key number, and the Bells are in fat city here.  In particular, Special Access, a $15B+ business, has triple-digit returns. 

And puh-leez let&#039;s not go down that &quot;widows and orphans&quot; trail again.  I&#039;m sure that many retirement funds own Goldman Sachs too.  That doesn&#039;t excuse their behavior.

The ideal solution, structural separation, lets the &quot;widows and orphans&quot; buy a stable, rate-of-return regulated stock (LoopCo), while the more speculatively-inclined could invest in the ServiceCo, which would be subject to little regulation, and thus be free to make high profits, or lose their shirts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, George, I&#8217;m not talking about gross profit margin.  I&#8217;m talking about rate of return, as calculated under the old USoA rules.  The FCC tracked this until recently.  Return on equity is really the key number, and the Bells are in fat city here.  In particular, Special Access, a $15B+ business, has triple-digit returns. </p>
<p>And puh-leez let&#8217;s not go down that &#8220;widows and orphans&#8221; trail again.  I&#8217;m sure that many retirement funds own Goldman Sachs too.  That doesn&#8217;t excuse their behavior.</p>
<p>The ideal solution, structural separation, lets the &#8220;widows and orphans&#8221; buy a stable, rate-of-return regulated stock (LoopCo), while the more speculatively-inclined could invest in the ServiceCo, which would be subject to little regulation, and thus be free to make high profits, or lose their shirts.</p>
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