Where Boxee Got It Wrong, And Zucker Got It Right
During the House hearing on the Comcast-NBCU merger this morning, NBC’s Zucker was asked about Hulu blocking the Boxee service and said the following:
This was a decision made by the Hulu management to, uh, what Boxee was doing was illegally taking the content that was on Hulu without any business deal. And, you know, all, all the, we have several distributors, actually many distributors of the Hulu content that we have legal distribution deals with so we don’t preclude distribution deals. What we preclude are those who illegally take that content.
Boxee CEO Avner Ronen took to his company’s blog to challenge the veracity of Jeff Zucker’s testimony, and made the following comment:
I’d like to set the record straight regarding Boxee’s access to Hulu. Boxee uses a web browser to access Hulu’s content – just like Firefox or Internet Explorer. Boxee users click on a link to Hulu’s website and the video within that page plays. We don’t “take” the video. We don’t copy it. We don’t put ads on top of it. The video and the ads play like they do on other browsers or on Hulu Desktop. And it certainly is legal to do so.
Despite being a Boxee user and fan of the service, (I have been a user of both the Alpha and Beta clients for over a year) I have to call out Ronen for trying to be too clever by half. The fact is, Zucker has the more honest argument on this point. Boxee doesn’t, in fact, act just like a browser. There is a key distinction that was lost in his claim that needs to be highlighted as it makes a big difference.
Unlike Firefox or IE, the default behavior of Boxee is to force the video being played into a full screen presentation. That’s important because it essentially hides the Hulu branding, recommendations for other content, etc. Below are the default presentation in Firefox and via the Boxee client (note, I took the Boxee screengrab before the video started playing. The content would appear in place of the orange dots in the image).
At no time did Boxee display the Hulu branding or look and feel, and unlike a browser, Boxee gives you no option to minimize the video so you can view other Hulu content. Ronen is simply not being honest when he says there is no difference between viewing Hulu in Firefox versus his company’s product. While Zucker was not technically accurate in saying Boxee was “taking the video”, the net effect is exactly that – Boxee prevents users from seeing the Hulu platform.
Great points Michael, Google would probably have a problem if you stripped their advertisements from their YouTube videos by directly pulling the content directly off their servers rather than use their flash interface. Not only am I taking Google’s content, but I’m using their bandwidth too.
The Boxee device is pulling raw content directly from Hulu which is taking Hulu’s content without their permission. Hulu provides the free content to us under the condition that I use their platform to deliver their advertisements and branding. The advertisements isn’t limited to the inline ads; it’s the entire branding of Hulu along with everything else shown in the web browser.
Please give the full story.
1) Hulu said that NBC didn’t want Boxee to stream Hulu (see link)
http://blog.hulu.com/2009/02/18/doing-hard-things/
2) Boxee has tried to work with Hulu and see what can be done. Hulu has not returned the calls.
3) This is the first time anyone has suggested that Boxee’s browser was not sufficient and to be honest it would be nice if Hulu or NBC said it. It feels like you are trying to do the PR work that they can’t do and you are grasping.
I don’t think either Boxee or the Boxee user would mind having to interact with the browser. In fact maybe they could make so you could interact with the commercials as well.
Let’s see Hulu and the content providers start thinking of the customers and stop thinking of spin.
FYI The picture makes you look like a douche which you may not be.
I’m happy to have a discussion with you but honestly is saying my picture looks douche-y the best jab you can come up with? It’s a lousy picture. I know that. But what does it have to do with anything?
To address your larger point, I’m not taking issue with Ronen’s characterization of the communications (or lack thereof) between the two companies because I have no way of knowing who is telling the truth. All I can do is explore the veracity of the claims the two have made that are independently verifiable.
On that count, what Ronen said was simply not true. Boxee, which I use frequently as an aggregator of web video, does not behave just like Firefox or IE when it comes to displaying Hulu. That is a demonstrably false statement.
Zucker, I acknowledged was not technically accurate either, but his characterization is closer to reality than Ronen’s.
I think Ronen and the CUSTOMERS are owed the truth for the “pulling” of Hulu from Boxee. Right now someone is lying.
Hulu spent the last year blaming NBC saying that NBC didn’t want customers watching internet on their TV. Not once did they say Boxee forces full screen which prevents the user from seeing our brand during the watching experience.
NBC then points the finger at Hulu and says Hulu didn’t like Boxee’s implementation because it steals the content. I’ve read Zucker’s comments repeatedly and I have failed to find a reference to forced full screen being the specific issue but agree that would be the only thing.
If full screen was the reason, why not say it? With how successful Hulu has been on Boxee (and I believe Hulu has been a big reason for Boxee’s success) do you not see this as the stupidest barrier? Until you mentioned it I wouldn’t have even thought about the forced full screen and can see what Ronen may have over looked it as well.
Like I said. The customer loses again and I blame NBC. I just can’t believe their explanation. I think it went exactley as Hulu said in their blog. I also feel for Hulu, who has been bailed on by someone who they thought was their best friend.
Your picture has a used Car Salesman feel and your posts feel like PR work representing some of the most smug, undesirable individuals ever. Zucker? Wouldn’t trust him to not pick pocket a little old lady while helper her across the street. Trying
Kevin, I really don’t understand why you have get so personal about someone’s photograph. The pick pocket comments don’t exactly advance the debate either.
Now Michael has brought up a good point, so Boxee needs to try and work it out with Hulu.
There are some valid copyright concerns with what Boxee does, which is similar in some ways to hotlinking images. Talking about it in a purely legal context gets you nowhere, since the copyright law just ins’t well equipped to deal with Internet issues; you have to draw all kinds of arbitrary distinctions based on the wording of an outdated statute.
Nevertheless, nothing about Hulu’s actions was motivated by a desire to prevent their content from being “taken.” Hulu is on the record as saying that their content partners required they block Boxee, the Hulu management didn’t want to. If Hulu were an independent business concerned only with promoting their product, they’d love Boxee. Boxee drives eyeballs to their advertisements. It is in *Hulu*’s interest to work with Boxee.
NBC’s anti-Boxee actions have been entirely driven by the networks’ to keep Hulu off of TVs, and to keep Hulu from competing for eyeballs with networks. This anti-competitive motivation is understandable, and I’m not saying it should be illegal. But I’m hard pressed to see any consumer benefit to limiting competition in this way, except insofar as it opens up opportunities for disruptive innovators to come in and take away NBC’s pie.
Ultimately, the embedding/hotlinking thing is a non-issue, at best an excuse. Drawing an arbitrary and unenforceable distinction between televisions and computers, and trying to keep online video as a little sideline instead of a real competitor, is driving the networks to deliberately hobble Hulu.
[...] patently not the same interface (with a hat tip to Digital Society for doing the legwork and taking the screenshots). In Boxee, you’re whisked right away to a [...]
Hi Michael,
The Boxee Browser can work in 2 modes: one in which it acts in a similar way to a browser on the desktop and lets you navigate the page, and one in which it tries to detect a video on a webpage and plays it. You can play with it by using the Boxee Browser App.
A better comparison of the video playback experience would be Hulu Desktop, where the webpage does not display at all, but rather the video starts playing immediately.
The bottom line of this all debate is not technical or legal it is purely business.
Regards,
Avner
I wouldn’t say that the Author Mr Turk looks like a “douche” or appears “douche-y” or anything else like that.
On the contrary, he looks cute, kind of like the “teddy bear” guy. slightly “tubby”. I understand these positive characterizations too may upset the author.
Best way to put all this to rest, is to run a marathon or get a photoshop wizard ;)
[...] patently not the same interface (with a hat tip to Digital Society for doing the legwork and taking the screenshots). In Boxee, you’re whisked right away to a [...]
What bothers me most is in your twitter picture you act like a family man by showing a picture of you with a kid and on-line you are willing to lie. I feel sorry for your kids. To have a dad with no ethics.
When displaying the video Boxee does show the 3 dots. It then loads Hulu webpage JUST like you show on your Firefox screenshot. The video then goes ful screen. The user has the option of going fullscreen or in thr window.
Hope the money is worth it
why watch t.v. programs at all? as far as movies go,hulu cant keep up w/ what people want to see, in fact they are better of just niche-ing it out. Clearly demographics research will tell them what the avg hulu movie watching group wants tot see.
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