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	<title>Comments on: Analysis of BitTorrent uTP congestion avoidance</title>
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	<description>Pro-Culture, Pro-Commerce</description>
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		<title>By: George Ou</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-20498</link>
		<dc:creator>George Ou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-20498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Me

1.  cFosSpeed doesn&#039;t solve jitter.  I&#039;ve tested it.  Even if it worked, it would only work for upstream traffic.  Downstream has to be handled on the ISP end because queue management happens on the transmit end.

2.  For you to say there&#039;s &quot;no need for any traffic shaping&quot; after admitting that you have to turn off BitTorrent is truly arrogant.  Many people have more than one computer in the house and more than one person using the broadband connection.  Those people have the right to ask their ISP for real solutions that allow all applications to work well together.

3.  I never said this needed to be solved on a global network.  It only needs to be solved at the localized level where the queues build up.  It doesn&#039;t even matter if BitTorrent or any other P2P application masqueraded their port numbers and pretended to be a VoIP application (not to mention they&#039;d get called out for bad behavior if they pulled such a stunt), the application&#039;s behavior (e.g., shoving the router queue with hundreds of packets in a 20 ms time frame) will determine the classification behavior.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Me</p>
<p>1.  cFosSpeed doesn&#8217;t solve jitter.  I&#8217;ve tested it.  Even if it worked, it would only work for upstream traffic.  Downstream has to be handled on the ISP end because queue management happens on the transmit end.</p>
<p>2.  For you to say there&#8217;s &#8220;no need for any traffic shaping&#8221; after admitting that you have to turn off BitTorrent is truly arrogant.  Many people have more than one computer in the house and more than one person using the broadband connection.  Those people have the right to ask their ISP for real solutions that allow all applications to work well together.</p>
<p>3.  I never said this needed to be solved on a global network.  It only needs to be solved at the localized level where the queues build up.  It doesn&#8217;t even matter if BitTorrent or any other P2P application masqueraded their port numbers and pretended to be a VoIP application (not to mention they&#8217;d get called out for bad behavior if they pulled such a stunt), the application&#8217;s behavior (e.g., shoving the router queue with hundreds of packets in a 20 ms time frame) will determine the classification behavior.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Me</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-20487</link>
		<dc:creator>Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 03:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-20487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@George:

Well, when I want to play a game, I turn off my torrents. Same when I want to use Skype. If I wanted all of that to work I would get two lines -- one for the torrents, and another for VoIP and gaming.

Another solution is to download on a dedicated machine overnight, use Skype and gaming during the day.

I see plenty of options to satisfy everyone, and absolutely no need for any throttling and traffic shaping.

If you absolutely need to have everything working at once, then by all means use cFosSpeed to traffic shape your own network:
http://www.cfos.de/speed/cfosspeed_e.htm

It works very well, even amongst several computers.

What you are suggesting to be solved on the global network level would never work -- as soon as ISPs start classifying traffic, people will have to start paying more for higher priorities, and BitTorrent will still be able to intentionally tag its packets as VoIP or gaming traffic and go through unharmed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@George:</p>
<p>Well, when I want to play a game, I turn off my torrents. Same when I want to use Skype. If I wanted all of that to work I would get two lines &#8212; one for the torrents, and another for VoIP and gaming.</p>
<p>Another solution is to download on a dedicated machine overnight, use Skype and gaming during the day.</p>
<p>I see plenty of options to satisfy everyone, and absolutely no need for any throttling and traffic shaping.</p>
<p>If you absolutely need to have everything working at once, then by all means use cFosSpeed to traffic shape your own network:<br />
<a href="http://www.cfos.de/speed/cfosspeed_e.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cfos.de/speed/cfosspeed_e.htm</a></p>
<p>It works very well, even amongst several computers.</p>
<p>What you are suggesting to be solved on the global network level would never work &#8212; as soon as ISPs start classifying traffic, people will have to start paying more for higher priorities, and BitTorrent will still be able to intentionally tag its packets as VoIP or gaming traffic and go through unharmed.</p>
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		<title>By: uTorrent 2.0 To Eliminate The Need For ISP Throttling &#124; TorrentFreak</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-20365</link>
		<dc:creator>uTorrent 2.0 To Eliminate The Need For ISP Throttling &#124; TorrentFreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-20365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is hard to tell if uTP really is BitTorrent&#8217;s savior (some highly doubt it), but if it lives up to the expectations it will be beneficial to both users and ISPs. The specs [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is hard to tell if uTP really is BitTorrent&#8217;s savior (some highly doubt it), but if it lives up to the expectations it will be beneficial to both users and ISPs. The specs [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: George Ou</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-19798</link>
		<dc:creator>George Ou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-19798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@TheScynic

&quot;maybe you have to shut down your torrents to make a phone call&quot;

Maybe you should let other people make that decision to let engineers at the Telco or at the IT department fix this for them.  Most people want everything to work at the same time.  They want BitTorrent to be unthrottled while VoIP and gaming work flawlessly.  They don&#039;t want to shut down BitTorrent just because it causes jitter when it&#039;s such an easy solution to fix jitter without any performance penalties on BitTorrent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TheScynic</p>
<p>&#8220;maybe you have to shut down your torrents to make a phone call&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe you should let other people make that decision to let engineers at the Telco or at the IT department fix this for them.  Most people want everything to work at the same time.  They want BitTorrent to be unthrottled while VoIP and gaming work flawlessly.  They don&#8217;t want to shut down BitTorrent just because it causes jitter when it&#8217;s such an easy solution to fix jitter without any performance penalties on BitTorrent.</p>
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		<title>By: TheScynic</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-19792</link>
		<dc:creator>TheScynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 00:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-19792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am one of those who does not use VoIP or do online gaming.  I believe it is most fair to let the individual decide if they want to prioritize on their own computer.  If you want to use VoIP, maybe you have to shut down your torrents to make a phone call.  I pay for my service and do not like to have it slowed because Bubba wants to call his girl in Tucson or play some game.  I pay and they pay for the pipe, and I choose and they choose what should is a priority.

The ISPs in the US are generally viewed by people I know as greedy and unmotivated to improve the infrastructure.  It is much easier (and need I add cheaper?) to point a finger at BitTorrent than to clean your own house.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of those who does not use VoIP or do online gaming.  I believe it is most fair to let the individual decide if they want to prioritize on their own computer.  If you want to use VoIP, maybe you have to shut down your torrents to make a phone call.  I pay for my service and do not like to have it slowed because Bubba wants to call his girl in Tucson or play some game.  I pay and they pay for the pipe, and I choose and they choose what should is a priority.</p>
<p>The ISPs in the US are generally viewed by people I know as greedy and unmotivated to improve the infrastructure.  It is much easier (and need I add cheaper?) to point a finger at BitTorrent than to clean your own house.</p>
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		<title>By: SiliconANGLE &#8212; Blog &#8212; Effects of BitTorrent on a Starbucks-AT&#38;T hotspot</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-16927</link>
		<dc:creator>SiliconANGLE &#8212; Blog &#8212; Effects of BitTorrent on a Starbucks-AT&#38;T hotspot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-16927</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the massive degradation in performance not to mention the fact that BitTorrent has the ability to hog most of the bandwidth at the expense of other users and applications.&#160; Even when BitTorrent is capped at a lower [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the massive degradation in performance not to mention the fact that BitTorrent has the ability to hog most of the bandwidth at the expense of other users and applications.&#160; Even when BitTorrent is capped at a lower [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Effects of BitTorrent on a Starbucks-AT&#38;T hotspot</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-16917</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Effects of BitTorrent on a Starbucks-AT&#38;T hotspot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 02:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-16917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Latest BitTorrent client &#8211; Now with improved destructiveness</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-12306</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Latest BitTorrent client &#8211; Now with improved destructiveness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-12306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How video streaming can ruin VoIP and gaming</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-11724</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How video streaming can ruin VoIP and gaming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-11724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dubious claims about BitTorrent network friendliness</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/analysis-of-bittorrent-utp-congestion-avoidance/comment-page-1/#comment-5982</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Society &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dubious claims about BitTorrent network friendliness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 00:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsociety.org/?p=1140#comment-5982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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